Am I a Racist?

Mon, 07/02/2007 - 21:05
Submitted by Chead118

I have a white father and black mother, and have had one foot into the white world, and one foot in the black world all of my life. I have defended both white and black folks, but especially white people in the black community.

My black friends would say that white people view all black people as niggers when they are amongst their own kind. I never believed that, I always thought people are just individuals.

Now that I am older, I must admit that I have had and have white family members, white lovers, white business partners, and at the end of the day, they all have one thing in common...their lack of loyalty. I find that if a black and white person is in a compromising situation, the white person will always put their best interest first, vs. taking the fall together.

If I took my white friend to a black function or party, and they were treated rudely, I would go to bat for my friend, in the opening, without hesitation. On the flip side, if I attended an all-white function with my white friend, they would feel uncomfortable when their friends are rude to me, but they would not take a stand. They will be uncomfortable for themselves, and will attend the event again, but this time leaving the little "nigger friend" behind.

Now I know that what I am saying is going to rub a lot of you the wrong way and maybe not. But for me, I had to voice out loud what I have been struggling with.

Also, no matter how much I try to deal with it, I hate that white women are with black men, especially under the impression that they can take care of him better than a black woman can. This is utterly ridiculous! I do admit, that there are cases when love is just love...but more than not it's usually a white woman trying to piss someone off in her life, and for the black man, half the time it's a status symbol. Either way, I need to confess what I've been dealing with.
Thanks!

Since the black men is been

Tue, 02/09/2010 - 01:21
theone (not verified)

Since the black men is been stereotyped as the big cock thanks to films and media. Yes white women are going for the blacks for the dicks. And a lot more clearly when they are magazine beautiful. These girls could get a beautiful man as themselves. But nowadays many are just going for the bed fun, which is sad, very sad. Support, loce, and the friendship and time together is practically the biggest percentage when it comes to a relationship. Sex doesn't cover as much... But normally the white girls that do the black men move are the guetto girls, mostly spanish girls also.

Sad but true. I wish these people would pick someone out of love.. Not just how big his dick is. And black girls do have huge asses, and to be completely honest its my fav on a girl but that won't make me go get black girls only.. Its just stupid to pick the race with biggest ass/dick.

Don Juan's picture
Mon, 07/02/2007 - 21:34

CHead,

The wifee is also bi-racial and her experiences echo your feelings. Make no mistake about it, in "general" we are all just people but some people perpetuate stereotypical subtleties that draw a stark line between races/ethnicities.

I am not bi-racial but my environment is very much so, I hear some ridiuculous things from collegues and neighbors (predominantly white), they apparently forget that I am black once they get to know me as a person, but their presumptions and theories are mind-blowing, I have gotten to the point where I seldom inform them of their inaccuracies anymore because if they do not know by now they never will. I just believe that is how "many" people are and unfortunately so.

My kids do not even know what "black" is, except when a neighbor or classmate refers to them as such. We taught them to assert themselves and let others know their name and not refer to them as such.

Its a fucked up world, and as much I as believe in the good of people, there are too many that are just too ignorant to know anything else.

And let me tell you something, having moved from the North a few years ago to Florida was a REAL wake-up call. I must admit that I was somewhat naive to race relations in the South and their progression since the civil rights movement, the South is dominated by GUN RACKS, PICK-UP TRUCKS, CAMOUFLAGE and FISHING RODS. Culturally and diversity wise, the South is a few decades behind..........

Mon, 07/02/2007 - 23:05

Are you a racist? I think one could argue that we're all racists since our culture is racially divided and we're visual beings. However, I do believe that some people see people for what they are and others see people for who they are and I think that it reflects who you really are deep down.

Since I'm in an interracial relationship, I can speak to your last point. When we're together, we just see each other. The taboo of dating outside your race wasn't the motivation. And neither of us thought that we were better than anyone else. Both of us were married to similarly dysfunctional people and when we met we were dealing with the same baggage and were able to understand each other.

I get the "white girl taking our men" thing and he gets the "black man with big cock for white girl" thing. We laugh about it. But our real friends see us as Geof and Carlin and that's what matters. Our relationship isn't about righting wrongs or overcoming racial injustice. It's just about love.

Tue, 07/03/2007 - 03:08

Don Juan, I'm glad you can relate, and it's important to give your bi-racial children equal education on their history...because I promise you, at a certain age, you start searching internally and externally for your identity, your real history, not what was put in the books for you to read, that has third and fourth generation of information, but research and real truth no matter how painful. Human resilience will kick in, and hopefully, all can be forgiven, but NEVER forgotten!

Tue, 07/03/2007 - 14:04

perhaps I'm naive, but I think we put this shit on ourselves more then other people do.

with my arabic background I find myself getting stopped in airports now more then ever, racial profiling? Of course it is, but I can't do anything about it and it's not "me" that brings this on, it's the circumstances of the world.

growing up I remember feeling like such an outsider, wishing I was blond with blue eyes, tall and thin, like the rest of the popular girls. But now, I look back and realize it made me work harder on the person inside, to compensate for the exterior. Now, I wouldn't have changed a thing, thankful that my struggles made me a stronger person and a kinder more understanding person toward people who are different.

when I hear people make statements about others dating people from a different race or culture, it makes me wonder if these feelings don't have more to do with them feeling insecure about who they are.

anytime I've dated a man from a different race or culture, I suppose I could have found certain situations where I was being looked down upon or treated differently, if that was what I was expecting from them, or looking for, but because I don't see myself as being any different than the rest of the world, I never noticed it or if I did, I just shrugged it off that I was over reacting.
I think you go through life getting what you expect.

Why would seeing a white woman with a black man infuriate you? Why does a black woman with a white man not? Does it bother you when you see a white woman with an Asian man?

I'm not saying that racism isn't out there, it is, and as C said, perhaps it's in all of us, but if you feel secure with who you are, I don't think these things are so apparent.

And the whole forgive but not forget way of thinking just fuels the fire of hate. History is history, it is what it is, hopefully we learn from it, and hopefully people feel proud of what they have overcome, but if people feel like victims because of it, then nothing will ever change, the hate just becomes reversed.

And for the record, I hate the N word, many times I've been called a "sand N", but just because people call me that, doesn't give me the right to use it.

Betterthenyouknew's picture
Tue, 07/03/2007 - 14:45

I have to agree with Eleni on this one. Racial precedence is out there, but if we add to it with our own anger and our own hate, we are doing just that... fueling it.

I often find myself in situations where I find I have said something Racist, and when I realize I've done that, or someone points out to me that I have, I'm often confused as to where it came from.

A good example is the White girl with the Black guys thing. I was dating this girl, who's roommate was white and she only dates black men. at some point in time, the girl I was dating said I brought up a lot that her roommate was with black men. I realized she was right, I had brought it up a lot, and when she asked me why, I couldn't for the life of me figure out why. But I'm guessing in some odd way it irked me, which I can't explain. I do not feel that black men are stealing the white women. I do think, I guess, that some white women are going for black men just for the "big cock" but I have no way of knowing for sure, nor am I qualified to judge anybody.
BUT, somewhere in the back of my head that causes me some annoyance, and no matter how hard I tell myself that, A. it's none of my business. And, B. who the hell am I to judge. - I still find myself thinking those thoughts sometimes.

So we all have racism in us. The trick is NOT to act upon it. NOT to condone it. NOT to fuel the fire.

If we all control our own impulses first. Than we can start building a new and better future where our children will grow up without racism.

A.

Tue, 07/03/2007 - 16:34

I think Carlin's said it best... we are all racist as long as we live in a separated society we will always be racist to some extent... I'm in an interracial marriage ... living in a predominately white area (always have) with children... we did not get together because we were black and white... we did so out of general attraction...that led to more... we've both been with both races and more actually... are you racist... hell yeah... is that bad .. .hell no... assuming you're no perpetuating the negatives... those that do that are simply mean... black or white or Asian or not... mean people do mean things no matter what they look like. Stereotypes are alive for reasons... they're also combated by thinkers... Remember the uproar Susan caused with her article about white women and black men... history always needs to be revisited... to be learned from...

Tue, 07/03/2007 - 16:37

Eleni is right on two counts.
The first is that we get what we expect.
When I was a kid and my dad was in the military, we moved a lot. And every time I would be upset about having to leave my friends, and sure that I'd have a hard time making new ones. And I did. But looking back I can see all the opportunities I had. The awkward invitations. A question, a smile, a statement of some commonality between us. And I either ignored (or rather was oblivious to) these invitations or (wrapped up in my "poor me, I have no friends and it's hard to make new ones" mindset) even reacted with some small measure of hostility because where there was only an attempt at friendship, I saw something else.
In essence, my expectations affected MY actions, and I got what I expected as a result.

Even now, my friends and I can all perceive the same thing differently. We might both look at the same thing or situation, and where I see someone speaking/acting without thinking, my friend might see a deliberate insult.

Tell me CH, if I, being the whitest of white, were to say that you had nice skin, what would your first reaction be? Would you think that I was commenting on your racial mix and the color of your skin? Or would you take it as a compliment about how soft and smooth and clear it looks? (And I remember from the old video feeds that you did seem to have soft, smooth skin.)

The second thing Eleni was right about was the folly of the "forgive but not forget" mentality. I won't say that it's wrong to forget the past, because those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. But, the very nature of the statement is effectively the same as not forgiving. Particularly because in this case it's more or less directed at entire races of people.
For example, forgive but never forget when directed at racism against black people. Outwardly you may forgive whites as a race (even though most of us wouldn't have any part of the cross burnings, hangings, etc) but when you say not to forget you are effectively telling blacks to keep an eye on us in case we strike again. Basically, it means behaving as if we are a dangerous animal in the same room as you.

There comes a point where we have to let go of the past. In this case, remembering the past is what is causing us to repeat it.

Tue, 07/03/2007 - 17:18

C-Licker....

well put... we continue to forget that we for the most part are just that..."a dangerous animal" which adds to the reasons for much of our societal backlashes... If we "remember" what it feels like when we put our hands in the pretty flame... then we wont get burned again... and if we remember how nice that pretty flame feels when it's cold outside... we can stay in the comfort zone we so wish to be in...

Betterthenyouknew's picture
Tue, 07/03/2007 - 18:43

I find it interesting to find that a number of people posting on the forum have been and possibly still are, slightly or more then that, socially outcast.
Tonio, and CH with the mixed racial background,
CL with the family that traveled a lot, and lack of friends.
Eleni, also from a background that is culturally biased against.
And myself, also, socially outcast as a youth, if for different reasons.

I think it goes a lot to show that people like us who have gone through hardships in our early stages of life, are now leading a wonderful debate about eradicating that kind of behavior in the future.
It is a shame no one from the other side of the social fence will read our posts or accept our views. They are all just too stubborn and in a lot of cases unaware of the pain racism causes because they never suffered.
Maybe the answer is to reverse our own behavior and racially abuse every single person who looks like he’s never suffered that type of thing, and thus, educate him or her by example…

OK, I don’t really mean that, but it was a good thought wasn’t it???

We are all dangerous animals, as CL and Tonio put it. But we on the boards are the tame ones. We are the ones who have gone through the fire and are now wary of the flames. But how do we teach tolerance without scorching the earth ourselves?

A.

PS. An afterthought...

I wonder how much of the people on the boards, the sexually liberated, are or were socially different as youth's. Does that make us more prone to exploring outside a certain range of comfort that most "normally raised" people adhere to?

Tue, 07/03/2007 - 21:04

Forgive and not forget is exactly that! It's not about being mean spirited or perpetuating the thought...all of us are not racist...a racist is someone with the power to influence...there are not that many brown of black people in the world with the power to influence...Oprah's $$ has allowed such, but even she knows her place. The reality is that racism and all the other "white" mentality is still in place...NOTHING has changed...it's just camouflaged now...the thinking is the SAME...it's not about controlling impulses...it's about the fabric of a person's being...

Question: How many of you have closed an ear or turned a blind eye to racism? How many of you know what racism really feels like, because if you did, you know that WE can never forget, and have to always remember our place, because your white so&so will surely remind you when the time comes. That is fact! And you can ask any black person in power!

And to other races that has felt discriminated against, understand this...when a people is systematically broken down, and stripped and mixed from their cultures, purposely separated and mixed with other dialects to forget their own speech, raped and brutalized to breed out the history and culture, still considered 3/4th's of a person, and had to just get an extension on the right to vote in a country they help build...you tell me What the Fuck is Going On? And please nobody use Obama...

And to the interracial couples...If aliens came down and wanted to take all the black people...and keep the whites safe, would you fight to die with your black SO, or would you thank God your White! Just a though!

Tue, 07/03/2007 - 22:05

Here's the painfully obvious fact about the history of slavery: both blacks and whites enslaved others so that they could advance economically. I don't think it had much to do with the color of their skin then the brawn of their backs.

They used racial prejudice and fear to keep others from questioning the practice but at the end of the day the egyptians enslaved the jews, the japanese enslaved the chinese, the entire world used coolie labor, and the greatest acts of genocide to date have been white-on-white and black-on-black.

You can harbor hate for your entire life but at a certain point you need to ask yourself why you can't let go of the pain. No matter what you endure in life it's better for you to let go of the negative energy for your own happiness.

And you need to examine whether others don't choose to be apart of your life because of the hate you harbor rather than the color of your skin.

Wed, 07/04/2007 - 02:57

Chead118;9990 wrote:
all of us are not racist...a racist is someone with the power to influence...

and the power to influence doesn't necessarily mean through money. parents influence their small children every day with their words and action, this is where racism starts and this is were racism must end.

as for the rest of your post, you could easily be talking about the struggles of many races/cultures or even women, but somehow people rise above it and overcome. I don't think the white man is the enemy, just the majority, and even that is changing.

as far as the alien question (sorry, but I did laugh out loud),
I don't think I would die for another person except my child, if I had one, but I do think I would be willing to die for a cause I strongly believed in if I thought my death would continue to benefit my beliefs.

Wed, 07/04/2007 - 05:17

If you on some level expect the person in front of you to be mean or hurtful, you will probably find that they are, even if they didn't mean to be. You didn't answer my question: If I, being a white man, were to say shortly after being introduced that you have nice skin (nothing else, just "you have nice skin") what would your first reaction be? Would you take it as a compliment, or as a sideways racist crack about your skin color?

As I've argued many a time, reality is fluid. What one perceives as a discreet/sly insult may be intended by the other as a genuine compliment. It's all a matter of perception, and our own expectations and insecurities shape our perception of reality.
The most direct way of expressing it, that I have ever heard, is this: People believe what they wish to be true, or what they fear to be true.
The latter, of course, is far more common.

Chead118;9990 wrote:
all of us are not racist...a racist is someone with the power to influence...

So, what constitutes influence? And why is it necessary before you would call someone a racist? Would you say that a white man with a white bedsheet and a pointy white hat sitting alone in a cabin with a confederate flag, polishing his shotgun and ranting to himself about how blacks are ruining this country is NOT a racist because he isn't influencing someone?

Racism comes in many shapes and sizes. Sometimes it's as obvious as if someone had put up a giant flashing neon sign, other times not so much. Would you say that a white shopkeeper who pays special attention to black customers because a black man robbed him is a racist? What about a black man who always complains that 'the white man' is keeping him down, and that whites are trying to take away everything blacks have gained back in the past centuries? Maybe I'm naive, but both those examples sound like racism to me.

Chead118;9990 wrote:
Forgive and not forget is exactly that! It's not about being mean spirited or perpetuating the thought

Yes and no. The literal meaning of the phrase is perfectly fine. It's good to know the history of the world, and bad to hold grudges.
The problem is the human element. When you add that, things change.
Humans are complex creatures, and while it's easy to say "It's okay, all is forgiven" it's not so easy to follow through on. Particularly when you won't let yourself forget about it. (Although I have to ask at this point, what is there that still needs forgiving? Am I responsible for the actions of my great great great great grandfather? Should I spend my life apologizing to the descendants of the people he may have hurt in his lifetime?)

As to your amusing question about alien invasion... I'm dating an asian girl, my best friend is half native american, and my friends in university (though we all lost touch over the years) were two black guys from africa (the exact location escapes me at the moment), a bangladeshi, an east indian, a handful of other arab students, though only one spoke passable english, and a malaysian. Oh, and there was a white girl I was friends with as well. So yes, I would fight for my friends. That's what "friend" means, right?

BTYK, I wasn't saying that we are all dangerous animals, I was saying that "forgive but never forget" creates an environment where one group at some level treats another like a potentially dangerous animal.

Imagine, if you will, a pit bull attacking a young boy, who grows up and has a young boy of his own, who he tells about his encounter with the pit bull. Now his child, perhaps subconsciously or perhaps not, will suspect all pit bulls of being potentially violent, vicious animals. If you treat an animal with anxiety, it will pick up on those feelings and become anxious itself, which makes it more likely to lash out.

You did raise some interesting points, however. It merits some thought. Perhaps a poll somewhere as to what kind of ostracizing, if any, the forum members have experienced in their youth? You might be right, it could be that the people who were victims in one way or another when they were young are the ones most eager for open debate and exchange of ideas when they get older. Then again, we could be putting the cart in front of the horse. Perhaps it's those who inquire and learn and grow as people who are treated badly when they're young.

Thu, 07/05/2007 - 15:51

I think you all are delusional, and is the real reason why racism is perpetuated; because people want to act like it doesn't still exist...I mean to say that "if you look for racism, then you'll see it" is ridiculous.

And Cuntlicker if you said my skin was beautiful, I would take it as a compliment...because I do think my skin is beautiful. But if you got comfortable around me, I wouldn’t be surprised if a bigot comment or something like will come out...it always does about one race or another! And I don't care about how many "black people" that live next to you, or work with you.

And are you serious with comparing white on white to black on black? Come on...every people have been oppressed...true...but, please speak to systematically breaking a race vs. just using them for labor. Have the Chinese culture been alleviated? Have the Jews? They were just killed! They weren't bred like cattle...speak to the breeding out of the race...the lost of the language, the dialects from the mixture of the African people, to lose their language, so they couldn't communicate. Why hasn't anyone spoken to theses things that go further than any other enslavement of a people? More Africans have and are still being killed in the name of racism...so please people, when you comment again, bring it all the way...

But I would love to hear from other African American members on this board, the one that I did hear from, seemed to agree with me...Don Juan...can someone speak to his comments?

And cuntlicker, don’t apologize for nothing you haven't done with your 1 or 2 African friends, and your 1 or 2 Asian girlfriends, I mean do you hear how ridiculous that sounds...? And Carlin, your relationship with Geoff is just that YOUR relationship, and Island men and American black men are different. Remember, I was there from the beginning. And I don't doubt you too love for each other...but please stop pretending you don't know where I'm coming from...we have had this conversation face to face in the past. And you have also been present when YOUR people have showed me hate...and you have also been there when I have shut-down anyone that attempted to treat you with disrespect regarding race or anything else, so please don't tell me about who separated from me due to my hate...because you know that is a bold face lie!

I am who I am…I don’t pretend. Like it or leave it!

and as for this comment from C-Bitch:

"And you need to examine whether others don't choose to be apart of your life because of the hate you harbor rather than the color of your skin."

Sorry, you have the wrong person, because I have never operated with hate...and I have chosen to separate myself...not the other way around.

Thu, 07/05/2007 - 16:25

Chead, what the f*ck are you babbling about? Jesus Christ.

Honey, race is the social construct that breeds hatred and violence, and its background (like everyone else) was founded on profit. Same thing could be said of the genocide that occurs in every other country, whether its the Holocaust or the Darfur incident. Let's be real.

And you know what? Sure, CL could say a misleading racist statement... but to assume that he will, Chead, means that you've just created a prejudice against him. Now, based on his race, you're assuming that he isn't intelligent enough to make an appropriate statement about the black culture. And you know what - so what if he does make some offensive comment about the black race - what are you gonna do about it? Are you going to flip a shit and call him a racist (although your agenda is a bit askew as well) or are you going to educate him on his statement and let him understand how you feel? Everyone is a bit a racist, Chead - our country profited from it, made it into entertainment, and refused to be rid of it until the mid 1960s.

As for the other "African-Americans" from what I can read from DJ's statements, he sounded like he was trying to be colorblind too. He admitted that he was naive about the intense racism that still lingers in the south and he didn't talk to his kids about blackness, which then became a situation when they were confronted with it in school. There's nothing wrong with that, I mean we all try and educate our children on some level to be colorblind... when the reality of it is that they need to be just as schooled on their heritage (HOWEVER we choose to define it) and what that may mean for others.

And, Chead, I am Jamaican-American. I would love to know the difference between African-American and Carribean men. Please educate me.

I dont know what angle you're coming from but you just sound like a hater, you're getting personal with your argument and I'm starting to believe you dont have a point. So, please, enlighten us on what racism REALLY means to you...

Don Juan's picture
Thu, 07/05/2007 - 16:31

CHead,

It sounds like a recent event or a series of events over time has put a very sour taste in your mouth, that is understandable, every once in awhile it is hard for me to turn the other cheek.

I also agree that you do not need to LOOK for racism because it will SMACK YOU YOU IN THE MOUTH when you least expect it from people or institutions whom were believed to be "race-free."

I would be on the boards all day if I blogged about "questionable" comments or encounters that I experience everyday. Racism is alive and well, I just do not allow it to impede my forward progress.

With time I have come to the conclusion that non-minorities or even other minorites of a different culture and history in the U.S., will never truly understand what it is like to be black, so I do not expect them to.

Let's face it, until 9/11 can anyone think of a label worse than being black? What about rapist, murderer, child molester? They do not even come close............

I have had more than enough bad experiences to walk around with a chip on my shoulder, but I do not let that cloud my optimistic view of people (some may say this is foolish). Every person I meet or interact with is just a person, their physical, racial, ethnic, gender, etc, is just a shell. I do not make assumptions, jump to conclusions or LOOK for anything. I am often dissapointed but every blue moon I meet someone who is the epitomy of fair and just.

For example one of my very best friends is a white 35 year old surgeon from a town in Kentucky with a population of about 2000, I was born and raised in the ghetto of Cleveland. We met as neighbors and things just clicked automatically, we even like to play "race" games when in public.

Our families will go to the amusement parks or shopping together, his wife is blonde with blue eyes and they have 3 like kids, my wife is bi-racial and our 2 kids are closer to my complexion. I will hold hands with his wife or carry his baby while walking with his wife, and he will do the same with my wife. Would anyone like to guess the types of stares, whispers and comments (under their breath of course)?

But racism is imaginery and overrated right?

Thu, 07/05/2007 - 17:10

I'm not going to reargue my point because stating that the attempt to exterminate an entire race of people doesn't rise to the level of slavery is just ridiculous.

It's clear that this is a personal post and that I'm the one you're angry with and you're using race to make your point.

We spent time together trying to create something that didn't work. I don't blame you and you shouldn't blame me. Once the business connection was lost, the friendship faded as well which tells me that their wasn't a real friendship there no matter who's fault that may be in retrospect.

Relationships have their own way of ending. And when I read your posts the venom and resentment is so apparent that I don't know why you're contacting me or what you want. You're angry and want me to feel some sense of loyalty which will make me feel obligated to do what?

I remember making 700 meatballs for your sister's wedding. I remember giving you paperwork that was never signed. I remember giving you 2 shots at directing films with 0 experience - I put my contacts and my own $ on the line. And I remember begging you to be more involved with the site. You haven't posted in months but now you're on every day.

I always wanted things to work out but they just didn't. I'm sorry for that. I have moved on and you should too for your own happiness.

Thu, 07/05/2007 - 17:27

Can I say... how incredibly "cool" the entire conversation is truly becoming?... It is because it's so personal... so individualized... tho...chead... I'm agreeing with DJ... you seem to have been affected by recent events that are causing you greater hatred than I think you wish to portray. Being black... or being considered black ( from bi racial backgrounds ) doesn't give us the freedom to hate. There is so much in this world to be hateful for.... so many reasons to feel threatened... your experience(s) with Carlin ... for example... are definitely reasons for being pissed off.... but (seemingly) directing it towards her... is deflecting the issue. Bottom line... (also as DJ mentioned)... being black (from a black persons p.o.v.) seems to have different flavors of racism in our country and others too... darker "people" are treated differently than their "lighter" counterparts all over the world... expecting to be treated different (ala CL's statement) will cause you to be treated different... be it skin... or economics... privileged peoples of any race treat underprivileged people differently... always have... always will... "we" here are unique... but a growing segment in life/societies... by 1) recognizing the issues... and 2) speaking to them... there's plenty to be pissy about... if u wanna... but there's ever more to recognize being blessed for... if u wanna...

ps: isnt it interesting how... when you think of being bi racial... the first thought is of black and whites... not of... say ... asian and black or white and native american...

Thu, 07/05/2007 - 17:34

to this:

And to the interracial couples...If aliens came down and wanted to take all the black people...and keep the whites safe, would you fight to die with your black SO, or would you thank God your White! Just a though!

who would you chose to defend ... your mother or father?

Thu, 07/05/2007 - 20:23

Caught this on the wires. For your own happiness and health, you need to let go of the hate:

Black women who feel they've been victims of racial discrimination are more likely than their peers to develop breast cancer, a large study suggests.

The study, which followed 59,000 African-American women for six years, found that those who reported more incidents of racial discrimination had a higher risk of breast cancer.

The relationship was stronger among women younger than 50, researchers found. This finding is particularly interesting, they note, in light of the fact that, unlike the case with older women, breast cancer is more common among young black women than young white women.

It's possible that racial discrimination plays some role, according to the researchers, led by Dr. Teletia R. Taylor of Howard University in Washington, D.C.

They report their findings in the American Journal of Epidemiology.

Past studies have suggested that over time, perceived racial discrimination can take a toll on a person's health. A possible explanation is that unjust treatment serves as a source of chronic stress, which itself has been linked to poorer physical health.

In the current study, women were asked how often they faced "everyday" discrimination, like receiving poorer service than other people at stores, or feeling that people are "afraid" of them or act superior to them.

They were also asked whether they'd ever been treated unjustly on the job, in trying to get housing, or by the police -- all considered examples of "major" discrimination.

Overall, Taylor's team found, women who said they frequently ran up against everyday types of discrimination had a higher risk of developing breast cancer. The same pattern was seen with major discrimination; women who reported on-the-job discrimination, for example, had a 32 percent higher risk of breast cancer than women who reported no such prejudice.

Women who said they'd faced discrimination on the job, in housing and from the police were 48 percent more likely to develop the disease than those who reported no incidents of major discrimination.

More studies, according to Taylor's team, are needed to confirm these findings, and to uncover the reasons for the connection between racism and breast cancer.

Thu, 07/05/2007 - 22:38

just the fact that we are having this discussion is a sign of change, be it a small one.

but, in response to DJ's comment
Let's face it, until 9/11 can anyone think of a label worse than being black? What about rapist, murderer, child molester? They do not even come close............

WTF?? I don't know anyone who would say that a black person is worse then a rapist, murderer or child molester. I'm not sure what you've been exposed to, but I can tell you I've lived all over the US and most of South America, and never have I felt that this was the case, or worse yet, heard anyone say it.

and when you make this comment

I must admit that I was somewhat naive to race relations in the South and their progression since the civil rights movement, the South is dominated by GUN RACKS, PICK-UP TRUCKS, CAMOUFLAGE and FISHING RODS. Culturally and diversity wise, the South is a few decades behind..........

isn't that being racist? aren't you implying that every person who drives a truck with a gun-rack or fishes and wears camouflage is a racist redneck? how is this type of comment any different then a white person from the south saying that since they moved to new york they are dominated by rap music and gold chains and pimp cars? it's stereotyping an entire group of people. both are wrong.

And Chead, to say that unless you are black, you don't understand, true...but, you don't hold the monopoly on being on the receiving end of racism. I remember not being able to join the "white" country club, because we were Arabic, or not being able to date the "blue blood" boys, because as I was referred to, a dirty Arab. So don't tell me I don't understand racism. I have chosen to rise above it, it made me a stronger person, others would chose to dwell on it and allow racism to beat them down.

I have nothing to apologize for, my family didn't even come to the states until the 1930's, but I still feel it is my obligation to fight racism, for all people/cultures and gender, because I've spent my life on the receiving end of it.

One of the reasons I'm so active in rape prevention and counseling is because my grandmother was the victim of a brutal rape...because she was an Arab immigrant.

If you want to right a wrong, then do something to help the future people, don't dwell on the past people.

Thu, 07/05/2007 - 22:47

"If you want to right a wrong, then do something to help the future people, don't dwell on the past people." ahmen...simple truths always hold more water.

Thu, 07/05/2007 - 22:55

I have heard of the "black tax" but now we have the racist breast cancer... as if ... the original claim wasn't enough... lol sorry... interesting information however... think of all the energies by all "races" expended on hate... and then imagine how many Happy Healthy racist you've run accross... Happy n Healthy taking on stronger meanings than ever before now... (ps eleni... dark n dirty... we're always fighting that one aren't we... )

Don Juan's picture
Fri, 07/06/2007 - 02:29

eleni223;10019 wrote:

but, in response to DJ's comment
Let's face it, until 9/11 can anyone think of a label worse than being black? What about rapist, murderer, child molester? They do not even come close............

WTF?? I don't know anyone who would say that a black person is worse then a rapist, murderer or child molester. I'm not sure what you've been exposed to, but I can tell you I've lived all over the US and most of South America, and never have I felt that this was the case, or worse yet, heard anyone say it.QUOTE]

That comment I made was paraphrased and updated to modern times, it originally came from MLK who recorded the commemt verbatim by a group of congressmen in the 50's. If I can find the documents I will surely forward the entire article and its context to you. This comment was discussed in great detail by Cornell West-famed Harvard professor.

Remember this discussion is not about what you would do or say, it is about how some people feel........just because it has not crossed your ears does not mean it has not been said.

Don Juan's picture
Fri, 07/06/2007 - 02:46

eleni223;10019 wrote:

and when you make this comment

I must admit that I was somewhat naive to race relations in the South and their progression since the civil rights movement, the South is dominated by GUN RACKS, PICK-UP TRUCKS, CAMOUFLAGE and FISHING RODS. Culturally and diversity wise, the South is a few decades behind..........

isn't that being racist? aren't you implying that every person who drives a truck with a gun-rack or fishes and wears camouflage is a racist redneck? how is this type of comment any different then a white person from the south saying that since they moved to new york they are dominated by rap music and gold chains and pimp cars? it's stereotyping an entire group of people. both are wrong.QUOTE]

Those are my observations and by themselves I do not believe they are racist, racism would involve making speculations and systematic generalizations about people who share those characteristics and then insinuating how those same characteristics make them inferior to the majority or somehow less than human.

Fri, 07/06/2007 - 12:25

That comment I made was paraphrased and updated to modern times, it originally came from MLK who recorded the comment verbatim by a group of congressmen in the 50's

but you took a comment that was made almost 60 years ago and by adding "up until 9/11" implied that it still held true until the Arab community became the next group to reclaim the statement, or at least that's how I read it, and perhaps it is because I'm sensitive to the injustice that has taken place and the civil rights that have been stampled upon in regards to Arabs living in this country which only reiterates our previous discussion on how we can choose to see things one way or another.

Those are my observations and by themselves I do not believe they are racist

maybe you don't see your statement as being racist, but my partner is a hunter, who wears camouflage, drives a truck and fishes.....and he gets stereo typed all the time as the "good ol'e boy" which couldn't be more from the truth, so you see, your observations can by themselves, lead to a negative thinking toward a group, your children pick up on your observations and then your observations become their observations and the cycle continues.

Fri, 07/06/2007 - 13:12

you know, I think this conversation is so important and it left me thinking about what Chead was saying, that we don't stand up for each other.

if all whites had stood up for the blacks, slavery would never have happened, and if all of Europe had stood up for the Jews the holocaust would never have happened and if all of America stands up for the Arabs living in this country then the CIA would never be allowed to tap our phones or monitor our emails and money wires. You would think that we would learn from that, but we haven't. And just because we can't relate to an injustice doesn't lessen it.

Isn't this really what Dr. King was speaking of? Justice for all? And especially those of us who have been on the receiving end of injustice, don't we owe it to ALL groups to stand up and say we are not going to let this happen again, even if it doesn't affect us directly?

I think what Chead was saying is this is what she is expecting, for people she loves to stand up for her, even if they don't understand or can't relate to what she is going through and when they don't, it hurts.

Fri, 07/06/2007 - 16:13

eleni223;10027 wrote:

if all whites had stood up for the blacks, slavery would never have happened, and if all of Europe had stood up for the Jews the holocaust would never have happened and if all of America stands up for the Arabs living in this country then the CIA would never be allowed to tap our phones or monitor our emails and money wires. You would think that we would learn from that, but we haven't. And just because we can't relate to an injustice doesn't lessen it.

A friend of mine from the south said to me once... "I hate when people throw the term "redneck" around like it's an adjective... the me it's like throwing the "n" word around... I'm proud of my southern roots and wont make excuses for any of it... I've never been unjust... and yet I'm lumped into the redneck stereotype!"

Originaly I was completely put off by the comparison of one term to the other... and yet... It's not my perception that mattered... it was hers.

If we all stand up for us...then we-all will be better placed in life. Back to Chead's original question... "Am I a racist" the answer is still yes... how she ... and we-all deal with it (hers and our owns) is truly the issue.

Fri, 07/06/2007 - 21:43

Chead118;10008 wrote:
And Cuntlicker if you said my skin was beautiful, I would take it as a compliment...because I do think my skin is beautiful. But if you got comfortable around me, I wouldn’t be surprised if a bigot comment or something like will come out...it always does about one race or another! And I don't care about how many "black people" that live next to you, or work with you.

So, because I'm white you think I'm guaranteed to say something racist... Hypocrite.
I've had more than a few friends of different ethnicities over the years, and it hasn't happened yet.

Chead118;10008 wrote:
And cuntlicker, don’t apologize for nothing you haven't done with your 1 or 2 African friends, and your 1 or 2 Asian girlfriends, I mean do you hear how ridiculous that sounds...?

First, those friends I mentioned, and my girlfriend, were in response to your little alien invasion scenario.
And second, it only sounds ridiculous until you hear black people say "forgive but never forget" about slavery which ended a long time before any of us were born and then use that as a reason to hold a grudge against whites. The simple fact that it gets brought up every time there's a discussion about racism today shows that deep down you haven't forgiven a thing, and that you bear a grudge that you have no right to, imo.

An interesting article I came across today, might be worth reading for everyone here. http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/05/only-white-people-can-be-racists.html

**edit** oh, and Toni, your friend is right. Redneck and white trash might not produce the same righteous indignation (or at least not to the same degree) as nigger (I refuse to call it 'the N word') but they still carry a derogatory meaning aimed at a group of people which is essentially considered to be a different ethnic group. I can absolutely see why your friend would hate being called a racist, sexist, inbred, uneducated welfare slob/baby factory. That is what's generally implied by either term.

Gingerism the new racism

Sat, 07/07/2007 - 23:24

Here's an interesting twist. The new form of discrimination sweeping the UK is gingerism: discriminating against people with red hair. Before you start laughing, check out this article I found on the BBC:

A red-haired family claims to have been driven from their Newcastle home because of abuse. Why is the harassment of redheads dismissed as just harmless fun?

Here's a joke. "What's the difference between a terrorist and a redhead?"

Here's the punchline. "You can negotiate with a terrorist."

Mock someone's ethnicity, religion or sexuality and you will attract the beady eye of management. Make a sexist joke and prepare to be dismissed as an antediluvian relic.

Verbal abuse

Carrot-top, copper-top, ginger-nut, ginger minger, bluey (among Australians), Duracell, Ronald McDonald, Simply Red, Queen Elizabeth. And so on for hours and hours of the typical redhead's life. No wonder some gloss over their hair colour as "auburn" and "strawberry blonde" and even "titian".

Photographer Charlotte Rushton has been chronicling the UK's redheads for a book, Ginger Snaps. Of the 300 she snapped, only two have been spared bullying because of their hair. She herself has suffered verbal abuse from complete strangers.

LEGENDARY REDHEADS

King David
Queen Boudicca
Pharaoh Ramses II
Henry VIII and his daughter Elizabeth I
Sir Winston Churchill
"I was on the Tube, pregnant, and I was really humiliated by this drunk yob. He was shouting 'do the cuffs and the collars match?' He got right up into my face. You don't do that to other people."

She believes the phenomenon is long-standing and uniquely British in its most virulent form.

"In other countries redheads will get teased at school but it stops when they become adults. If you are a woman you are fiery and alluring, beautiful."

In adult life, women get stereotyped and red-haired men take much of the worst abuse. Treatment of red-haired children in school ranges from mild taunts to grim persecution.

Michele Eliot, the American director of British children's charity Kidscape, regularly has significant numbers of red-haired children in courses on coping with bullying.

Children face a tough time at school (Pic: Charlotte Rushton)
"There is nothing like this in the US where having red hair is not a precursor to having someone abuse you. Red hair is considered glamorous."

Bullies at school and in later life may sense that ill-treatment of the red-haired will not be treated as seriously by the authorities as persecution of other groups.

"Bullies think that person is outside the norm, they will be able to attack them. The bullies find something to pick on. The bully has a problem and needs a victim," Ms Eliot says.

Racism row

While there has been at least one report of a serious anti-red hair hate crime in the UK - a 20-year-old stabbed in the back in 2003 - it's unclear whose responsibility it is to monitor discrimination.

Caused by mutated MC1R gene
Most prevalent in far northern and western Europe
May have survived due to increased vitamin D production in pale-skinned
'Sexual selection' also possible
Disagreement over redheads' reputed higher pain tolerance
"It is certainly not us," says the Commission for Racial Equality.

Conservative backbencher Patrick Mercer, when recently sacked for alleged racism, sought to get himself out of a hole by comparing treatment of black soldiers to those with red hair.

"That's the way it is in the Army. If someone is slow on the assault course, you'd get people shouting: 'Come on you fat bastard, come on you ginger bastard, come on you black bastard.'"

One of these three epithets would now be regarded as totally unacceptable, and possibly against the law. Even the first, mocking someone's weight, is under a sustained assault from feminists and those concerned about what society's treatment of weight issues does to vulnerable teenagers.

But the abuse can be far from innocuous.

"We talk about kicking racism out of sport but this is just as bad in its way," said Reading striker Dave Kitson in 2005. He can't have been delighted when the Daily Star reported his remarks under the headline "Kitson's a right ginger whinger". Or when players' association chief Gordon Taylor said: "It belittles racism to compare the two issues."

RED HAIR MYTHOLOGY
Redheads sacrificed in ancient Egypt
Associated with witches and vampires in Europe
Reputed to bleed more
Mary Magdalene, Adam, Judas and even Jesus depicted as redheads
Journalist Sharon Jaffa - also a red-head - says society must stop its ginger-baiting.

"Growing up as a redhead I was lucky enough to escape with just the occasional name-calling - having the surname Jaffa was no doubt a double-whammy. But attacking someone on the basis of their hair colour can be every bit as damaging as persecuting someone for their race or religion, and therefore, in some cases, needs to be taken just as seriously."

Red hair has great cultural resonance. Red is the colour of heat, danger and warnings. When applied to women, it is the colour of sensuousness, fiery temperament and emotional instability.

"Lilith [Adam's lover] was a redhead. It indicates red hair was bad. Shakespeare made all his most menacing characters wear red wigs. That seeps into culture," Ms Rushton says.

Stress release

So when does this date from? Some claim it could be a throwback to anti-Irish sentiment from the 19th Century and before when the Irish, with a greater prevalence of red hair, were regarded as ethnically inferior.

Anecdotally at least, males get more abuse than females
Patrick O'Sullivan, head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit, says he has never come across a link. "People could feel forbidden to attack their usual victims and are searching around for ones that have not yet achieved the protection of the law."

Professor Larry Ray, a sociologist at the University of Kent and an expert on racial discrimination, says the perpetrators could be habitual bullies. "If they are engaging in one kind of harassment they are engaging in others. They are looking for targets."

For those who claim their workplace taunts are just harmless banter, it could be stress rather than an anthropological aversion to red hair.

Workplace psychologist Professor Cary Cooper, of Lancaster University, says abuse can be "an unhealthy release valve for stress" and redheads, as a visible minority not protected by law, have become a target.

While other forms of the discrimination are the subject of marches, lobbying and education campaigns, redheads cannot expect the arrival of the politically correct cavalry anytime soon.

Betterthenyouknew's picture
Mon, 07/09/2007 - 15:45

On the same note, what about the stereotypes for blondes for that matter.
Or what about dwarf racism?
Any group, which falls into one sort of minority or another, will eventually be ostracized and abused.

There is no cure, unless we each correct our own behavior and lead others by example. We can only each do so much, but it start from within. When we stop abusing others, and we try and teach the people around us to do as we do, then we can start fixing things.

This also leads us back to the other discussion about the word prostitute and it's meaning. It is a derogatory term and could be viewed not specifically as racist, but as occupation racism??? Is that a term?

Bottom line, these things exist and we have to accept that and work to better it by changing ourselves first, and the environment later.

Chead, don't call anyone here on the forms a racist until you can honestly say you are NOT one.
And honestly, I don't know that ANY of us, can say that. I know I can't.

If we all look back in our own past, there is always one type of minority we might have abused, even in thought, if not in words, that had we said or done something, would have been considered racist, or derogatory, or abusive. The fact that we may or may not have acted on those thoughts doesn't make us racists. Having those thoughts is enough isn't it? Those of us who didn't act on them, or say anything loudly are just better at self containment, and control, knowing the environment we live in would judge us on our words or actions.

As someone more famous then I once said, "The whole world is a stage..."
Well, we all act, based on how we want to be perceived. I don't know anyone who doesn't.

A.

Ps.

Betterthenyouknew's picture
Mon, 07/09/2007 - 15:46

OH,

and one more famous Redhead...

George Washington

A.

Mon, 07/09/2007 - 16:37

cuntlicker;10029 wrote:

**edit** oh, and Toni, your friend is right. Redneck and white trash might not produce the same righteous indignation (or at least not to the same degree) as nigger (I refuse to call it 'the N word') but they still carry a derogatory meaning aimed at a group of people which is essentially considered to be a different ethnic group. I can absolutely see why your friend would hate being called a racist, sexist, inbred, uneducated welfare slob/baby factory. That is what's generally implied by either term.

Thank you Cl... I'd hoped to have the response to nigger vs the N word you gave... the more we avoid truths the less likely they'll survive. It's natural for us to "stupidfy" others... for looks... sounds... hair color etc... the fact that humanity is capable of rising above differences... allows us to more so control our enviornments than "most" other species on our planet. I for one will never generalize the term redneck again... and solely because one friend decided to defend herself... even though I never directed it with or towards her.

Betterthenyouknew's picture
Mon, 07/09/2007 - 21:10

CL,

I didn't read the whole article, but I got the gist of it.
It is the flip side of Racism. one people has been victimised for so long that now they become what they hate the most. It's a sad situation.

Like I said, as long as we attack someone else, be they minority or majority, the hate continues.
once we start working on healing, we can all heal together.

A.

Tue, 07/10/2007 - 00:53

Thank you Cl... I'd hoped to have the response to nigger vs the N word you gave... the more we avoid truths the less likely they'll survive.

not only can I not say the word or type it, everytime I see it or hear it I feel a knife go thru me. It's not avoiding a truth, it's avoiding pain.

Tue, 07/10/2007 - 16:09

eleni223;10062 wrote:
Thank you Cl... I'd hoped to have the response to nigger vs the N word you gave... the more we avoid truths the less likely they'll survive.

not only can I not say the word or type it, everytime I see it or hear it I feel a knife go thru me. It's not avoiding a truth, it's avoiding pain.

I understand what you mean eleni... and totaly recognise and feel the pain you're describing...my point to/with CL was that we so mask the pain by changing one to the other, with hopes lessoning the conotations... "if we hide from our pasts... we're afraid of our futures." When is a bitch not a Bitch, a dick not a Dick... a... "N" ( shortened with respect of you in mind ) not a... etc...

Keep thinking people... and we'll keep growing.

ps: Hear about this in the news lately?

"The Case of the Jena Six: Black High School Students Charged with Attempted Murder for Schoolyard Fight After Nooses Are Hung from Tree"

courtesy of Democracy Now