Betty Dodson with Carlin Ross

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Wow, your partner really seems to live in his own little egocentric bubble. Just tell him what you feel and if he doesn't get it, DUMP HIM.

Let's make one thing clear: You don't have to "support" his "desires" in any way except for the general respect one should have towards all human beings and their sexuality. That is it!

Just because you're lovers and live together, doesn't mean that you should go with anything but what feels good to you. You write:

"[= 14px; line-height: 22px]It makes me uncomfortable, but I try to be supportive of his desires, while maintaining my boundaries. However, things recently went too far."[/]

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[= 14px; line-height: 22px]This comment makes it clear that things did not go too far just recently, but before as well. You clearly state that you, in fact, do things that you are uncomfortable with: you have actually not maintained your boundaries. For what? Does it seem like your man has a fraction of the sensitivity and respect for you as you have for him? [/]

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[= 14px; line-height: 22px]Our bodies and sexuality are our own, nobody elses. Sexual interaction with another human being is a gift. We are under no obligation to engage in activity that doesn't feel good. In fact, it's damaging to do so. Don't treat your body as his fantasy disposer.[/]

I think it's great that you accept that your boyfriend masturbates and uses erotic materials. Both are healthy practices, and there's exciting erotica out there that doesn't humiliate anyone. But the porn industry itself is unfortunately largely an ugly, exploitive business. I believe that young people need counteractants to what they see in so much porn. We need sex ed that focuses on mutual pleasure, arousal techniques that really work, and respectful treatment of one's partner. If that kind of sex education were standard, I think that more and more people would find much commercial porn unappealing and even offensive.

Having said that, your boyfriend can't be blamed for the misinformation he's absorbed. It's everywhere in our culture. He needs education---about your sexual and emotional needs and about why you object to the influence the kind of porn he's been watching has had on his desires. If you have honest discussions about these issues and get couples counseling (if you think that would help), you could have a great chance of working everything out.

www.reddit.com/r/nofap
This comminity is great for men and women who use porn and masterbate, me and my BF are trying this, he used to masterbate all the time, 2-3 times a day, we even have sex all the time upwards of 4 times a day but hes been 40+ days no fap and it has worked wonders for his self esteem and control. He even appears more attractive to me because of the built up testosterone. 
definalty worth checking out.

I find this response completely contradictory to what you teach & Carlin's very recent interview with Salon.com. 
I don't understand why women feel threatened & respond soo negatively to their partner watching porn? If the man was a woman & the porn was a vibrator, you'd say buzz away & if the man has a problem or feels threatened, tell him to grow up & move the hell on! I don't think this is ANY different. If porn is what turns her man on, he shouldn't be guilted. I can understand you being peeved if him waking you interrupted your sleep/work schedule, but the fact you were soo upset seems incredibly sexually immature. 
In regards to him asking you to do things that "humiliate" you-why does him having an orgasm onto your skin humiliate you? Is your perception of what he's doing based on an earlier experience in YOUR life? Is he physically or verbally causing you harm? I think asking HIM might not only give you an insight into your lovers mind, but also alleviate your feelings of "humiliation". 
Knowing how intense a climax is with a partner- being able to be front row, viewing my lover be turned on by my actions & orgasm onto my skin, is such an awesome experience for me! 
And last, if the idea of him watching porn bothers you this much, I can't help but wonder what YOUR sexual experiences & knowledge spans?  Have you ever watched porn? Maybe you should with an open mind...maybe a site like this would be more enjoyable: 

http://www.x-art.com/ 

Maybe if you had a more accurate view of all the things that turn human beings on, (Apotemnophilia, Asphyxiophilia, Coprophilia, Urolagnia, Zoophilia ETC) you'd be thrilled, or maybe even titillated by what your lovers turn-ons are...

.. tell him so.
I wonder if the problem of that particular situation was primarily because you were woken up or due to the fact that he woke you up masturbating to porn?
Does he wake you up often? How is your living arrangement? Is there any way you can change your apartment/room that will give both of you more freedom/liberties?
Living together is tricky, especially (at least for me) with lovers. Somehow, when I am in a "normal" relationship - I always feel I need to be a good "wife" - and I am going into a very sensitive mode catering to his needs (i.e. : what is his desire? what does he want? what could we do together? .. ) to the point where I totally loose the sense of what I want/need at that moment.
So well my advice to you is: try to listen to yourself and make yourself heard. tell him what you need - be it a good night's sleep or more clit stimulation in sex, or him going slower ..
then see how that goes. (sometimes, all it takes to change something - is our approach towards a situation)
And don't put too much pressure on you - you don't need to be able to voice everything you want/need all the times.. well, sometimes I thought I knew and said something - only to find out I wanted something else - it's a process

MK we all get desires that focus outside a relationship wether they're fantasies or fantasies shared as porn. We don't own all of our partners sexuality. My hunch is you should ditch him as he's already bullied you into doing things you don't want to do. Find someone else who respects you and if possible takes sexual pleasure in you desiring them. Mainstream porn is basically male domination so is really part of BDSM. Being degraded and abused is a common fantasy but it's consentual not imposed.

With your new partner it might be nice to look at some ethical porn together and get ideas. There are only a handful of sites I know off  that are about sexuality with intelligent forums  Liabdradahl.com (a totally genuine expression of her sexuality) ifeelmyself.com (with lots of videos of differrent ways you can masterbate or be pleasured by a partner) and ishotmyself.com where someoe who's gynosexual can fantasize about being desired. Good luck :)

 Brittany, your response is misguided and disrespectful.

She has not guilted her boyfriend for liking porn (nobody here has). She also clearly states that the reason she feels uncomfortable about the porn thing, is because she feels that it "influences the way we have sex, and how he views women" in a way that she's uncomfortable with. This is a very valid feeling (if there is such a thing as "invalid" feelings).  So, the issue isn't that he likes porn or porn in itself, but that he's taking it to where it crosses her boundaries. 

That you have no problem with porn, someone coming on you and are turned on by your boyfriends masturbation doesn't make you more sexually sophisticated than one who isn't. A scenario can be a turn-on for one person, but a turn-off for another. Simple as that. Furthermore, she never stated that she doesn't like to watch him masturbate, just expresses that she feels the porn influence has gone too far. That she was upset by being woken up from him masturbating is not at all strange and doesn't make her seem or be "increadibly" sexually immature. That's a horrible thing to say to a person and completely unjustified! I'd say your lack of understanding and respect for her preferences actually suggests it's you who are the immature one. One can be into all kinds of kink and have had a thousand lovers, but if you can't grasp something as basic as respect for other peoples boundaries and preferences, you have much to learn about sex and life in general.

About negative reactions to porn in general:

Mainstream porn IS hostile towards women - it shows no respect for women in general, our bodies or how we work sexually. You can look at it as dumb entertainment, enjoy it and not take offence, but it's not strange if women feel uncomfortable with it. To more or less point someone out as lacking experience and knowledge for not liking it is really narrow-minded and disrespectful. I suggest you take a bit of the advice you gave and open your own mind.

The thing that I noticed is that MK makes no mention of having communicated her concerns to her boyfriend.  I don't think that she has guilted him for liking porn.  She'd have to communicate that to him to do that, and it really sounds to me like there is a good chance she has built up resentment without ever communicating her feelings about it to him.  But I disagree with Elin A that nobody has guilted him.  Betty refers to the porn as "all that crap," which is certainly intended to make him feel guilty about what he enjoys.   Porn is actually fantasy, and personally, I see nothing wrong with wanting to try to act out a fantasy.  No one should be forced to do something that they find offensive for whatever reason.  The example of him wanting to come on her seems to me to be a very minor thing compared to some other porn activities which often are very offensive to me too, and might be very humiliating.  But that's just me.
I disagree with Betty that she should charge him $200 to let him come on her.  There is nothing wrong with it, and if she is offended, humiliated, or dislikes it for any reason, she should just not do it at all, not do it for $200.  In a consenting relationship, no one should have to pay to perform a particular sex act with their lover.  Either do it willingly, or don't do it.
And I disagree with Elin A that "You don't have to "support" his "desires" in any way..."  There is nothing wrong with both being willing to try new things that their partner might like.   We should all be willing to try to support our lover's desires.  I am willing to try almost anything that my girlfriend would like to try, and she has always been the same with me (including me coming on her, even though she does not understand the turn on of that).  We might try it only once if either of us doen't like it.  To say that you shouldn't support his desires suggests a self-centered person to me.  I suspect that you feel it is good for your lover to support your desires.  I hope you didn't mean it the way it sounded.
If MK communicates to her boyfriend, maybe he will be fine with respecting her boundaries.  Maybe not.  But she has to communicate to him what they are.  Communication is so important to avoid hurt feelings.  If he has no consideration for her feelings and boundaries, then that is different.  All sex should be consensual.
Now it was inconsiderate to have awakened her at night.  Again, she should communicate that it was self-centered and that he shouldn't wake her up in the middle of the night (for any reason).  But the porn and the masturbation are not the issue there.  It's the waking her up during the night for his own pleasure.  It would be the same as turning on the TV and waking her up.  An insensitive act.

I gotta say there's a faint air of snobbery when it comes to how some people on this blog view mainstream porn versus "ethical" porn (what does that mean anyway). No one pushes adult actresses into doing hardcore porn and they often get paid better than men. Even with BDSM porn there are usually lot's of controls in place to make sure no one is brought to any kind of harm. If some people use mainstream porn as sex education then I think that says more about them than the porn industry.

But enough about that, since this isn't really the point of the discussion.

Precisely! It would seem MK's boyfriend is communicating his desires and MK is just going a long with whatever he says. If this is true, then I think MK needs to be open and honest with her boyfriend about her feelings. If he won't change after this then it's probably best that you go your separate ways.

Yes and very reasonable these feelings are, but is she communicating this to her boyfriend?

There is no evidence in MKs letter that her boyfriend is bullying her, so this is pure conjecture. I really hope MK is not being bullied; this would be completely unacceptable.

I would agree with this. If this were the case some of the replies would probably have been very different. But again, even when the roles are reversed this situation is wrong for the same reasons; good relationships need mutual respect and consideration for your partners feelings.

Bottom line; communication is key.

EG1:

Betty does NOT refer to porn as "all that crap". That is a direct misquote. 

She does, refering to cumshots, say: "Women porn stars are getting paid good money to put up that crap!"

I agree it seems demeaning, but get your quotes straight.

You then write:

"And I disagree with Elin A that "You don't have to "support" his "desires" in any way..." There is nothing wrong with both being willing to try new things that their partner might like.   We should all be willing to try to support our lover's desires."

This is irrelevant to what I've actually written. I've never even suggested there's anything wrong with being willing to try new things, or supporting your lover's desires, etc. But you most certainly don't have to participate in anything. Basic respect is all that you're bound to. Participating is quite another thing, and should only be done if you feel absolutely comfortable with it. This is something that a lot of women have a problem with, breaking their own boundaries because they want to please their lovers. 

Otherwise, I agree about the communication thing. Maybe I'm horribly prejudice, but I think if a person doesn't have the guts to stand up for themselves sexually, as the author obviously does, they probably have a problem discussing relationship difficulties as well. It's about a general lack of self-esteem.

Zombieguy,

You're quoting me out of context. The point of discussion there wasn't wether they were communicating, but the fact that Brittany showed absolutely no understanding for why the questioner had a problem with her boyfriend watching porn. 

Furthermore, my opinion posted on mainstream porn was on how women are portrayed in it, not what goes on backstage. So your opinions on the working conditions of porn actresses is moot in the context.

But I have to add I think what you write about the conditions is really naive. It's obvious it's a very dirty business where a lot of people get hurt and a lot of actors and actresses have a history of abuse and drug addiction. That women often get paid better and that there may be controls on set for extreme shots doesn't change that. 

Zombieguy bullying to me isn't just linked with violence but an abuisive relationship and abuse to me can be as low level as persistantly abusing hospitality. And I think it is abusive to acomadate someone elses needs in a way that you have to constantly be aware of your boundaries and they are doing nothing that you might want them to do for you. I call that an abusive relationship. A level 1 abusive relationsip if you like with violence at 10. Abusive relationships only get worse as every new peice of shit you take is adjusted to the new norm. So yeah my hunch is dump him now.  I mayfeel differently if I met them but that is what I feel when reading the email and I stick by it. 

Jake, I think in this case, with what we've heard, the guy may be inconciderate (what kind of idiot puts on porn in the middle of the night in the same room that their partner is sleeping?), but not a bully and not abusive. "Persistantly abusing hospitality" is indeed abuse in a relationship, and it's common. I mean, how many people have not experienced a partner nagging or exercising emotional blackmail to get what they want sexually and otherwise... But we have no indication that she has even made him aware that she anything but likes what he does. If he was aware of her discomfort and still persisted, we could call him abusive. Most importantly, she is abusing herself by going along with his suggestions. She is also betraying him and their relationship by not being honest. From what she writes, it seems she has reached a breaking point in the relationship without even talking to him! (If she had talked to him, she would have mentioned it or not even written Betty in the first place).

I think a lot of people want to please their loved ones out of fear of what might happen if we don't. The thing is, how can we ever be loved and desired for who we are, if we don't stand up for ourselves and really show to the world and our loved ones that "this is me, these are my feelings, this I like, this I can't accept", etc. The question many need to ask themselves, and act from, is: "Do I really want to be loved/desired for this modified version of me or the true me?"

There is a lot of good discussion here about several issues that
MK touches on in her email. But as I reread her original post, her question is multifactorial,
and when she says she is confused, it’s because she has not yet sorted out all
her feelings about this, but doesn’t like the way it’s headed. She states:  “it
has made it obvious that pornography is creating a rift between us. I'm very
confused and feel that this may be a deal breaker. Do you have any advice on
how or if we should try to repair my hurt feelings, distrust, and general
feelings of violation?”

I think MK needs to examine what it
is that is making her feel violated and distrustful. I doubt simply waking her
up once while masturbating is the trigger, but might be the straw that broke
the camel’s back. It sounds like resentment has been building for a while and
she needs to ask herself why several times to get to the root cause. Is it
because the porn her BF enjoys and wants her to enact is offensive or perverse
to her? Indeed one man’s ceiling is another man’s floor, if that is the root of
it, then maybe with some frank conversation, they can find a middle ground that
makes everyone happy.

But I suspect it is more than that. On
D&R, men’s egos are sometimes referred to as fragile, but I recognize that
we women are pretty fragile also, and it becomes difficult to be rational when
your feelings are bruised. Is it possible that MK is reacting to the fact that
her BF is jacking off while she is laying there in bed, a flesh and blood
woman? Maybe she prefers that if he’s going to wake her up, that he should wake
her up and ravish her when he’s horny in the middle of the night rather than
turn to porn.

I am a strong, independent- minded,
mature woman with high self-esteem. I enjoy a healthy sex life with myself and my
extramarital lover. Yet I still have a strong need to feel desired, and I still
get my feelings hurt by my husband’s lack of desire for me. For many, many
years before our marriage became totally sexless, I was aware that he was
masturbating frequently, yet couldn’t get it up or keep it up for me. I don’t
care how strong you are, it hurts to feel that your man would rather indulge
his fantasies with porn than make love to you.

I shaved my pubic area months ago and
my husband has yet to notice. I doubt he ever will. Men could probably enjoy
all the porn they want as long as they make sure their flesh and blood lover
doesn’t feel like she’s being supplanted by it. 

Perhaps I'm reading more into MK's situation than I should, but before she decides whether or not this is a deal breaker, she needs to be clear about her own feelings. This is an opportunity for her and her boyfriend to communicate and sort things out. If they don't, the resentment will continue to build and it truly will become a deal breaker.

Elin said "I think a lot of people want to please their loved ones out of fear of what might happen if they don't." 
Woah I would say it's a golden rule never ever to please someone for that reason ever, that is the 1st stage of an abusive relationship. It may never progress passed that but if this is persistant it's abusive. 

About this word abusive. If I abuse my laptop, I throw it down and whack the keys too hard and disrespect it, it breaks. People who are persistantly desrespected break too. That's what abuse is. Someone has allowed themself to be walked all over by the dominant partner. If your always having to be conscious of your boundaries in a relationship or ordinary friendship then your on the edge of discomfort and anyone with any consideration who is intimate with you is gonna pick that up without you even saying anything. But an abusive personality will pick up those obvious signals and not care. because they feel entitled to be dominant and get their own way or it's the highway and I vote for the highway.  

Some people can't understand how someone would stay in a level 10 abusive relationship. They stay because their relationship is just the same as when it was a level 1. or before that when everything was charming and you were both picking raspberries and they threw a raspberry for you to catch in your mouth and when you threw them one they said no best to wash them 1st before you eat them. Something that small would be your 1st sign. When we're doing something thsat makes someone else uncomfortable we can all pick up the signals of someone elses discomfort so inconsiderate behaviour that just keeps going on and on is abusive. Anyway that's my view and I think it's good that there are several views here, I might be wriong or you might be, but whoever is right, if that ends up helping MK that's fine with me. 

We will have to hear from MK to know whether any of our surmises or suggestions are close to the mark. But you may have a point about the real possibility of feeling rejected if one's lover prefers solo sex to shared lovemaking. Few of us on D&R mind if our partners masturbate or use erotic materials sometimes, but I'm pretty certain we'd all hate it if we were shouldered aside in favor of those materials. On the other hand, it occurred to me in reading your post that it's possible that MK's boyfriend is taking care of his own needs precisely because he knows she has to get up early, and he is actually trying to be considerate of her rather than intentionally waking her up just so she can give him sex. I hope they'll discuss all their issues with an open heart and mind, and without angry preconceptions.

Patrick, you've got to be kidding me. His actions clearly show he doesn't care about her need for sleep. If he was so horny he couldn't take it, he could have gone masturbating in another room.  

Jake, I hear you. But I didn't mean fear as in fear of abuse, but that their partner won't love and desire them for who they truly are.
We all ajust our behaviour, looks and whatnot according to what we feel society and and our partners will or won't accept from us, most of the time unconsciously so. That you do this does not mean that your relationship is abusive, it simply means you're human. If you do it too much, it probably means you have low self-esteem. And this low self-esteem does not have to have root in the relationship. Actually, if you're a woman, it's probably just the conditioning of society on women to please men and being discouraged to tune into your own sexual body.

No, I'm not kidding. I speculated that her boyfriend's trying to be considerate might have been possible. I've heard several women express understandable anger about being awakened by horny boyfriends who want to have sex in the middle of the night, so I didn't think it was out of the question that MK's boyfriend didn't want to do that to her. However, if her boyfriend actually had gone to another room to get himself off, then someone would no doubt complain about that, too---wondering why he wanted to distance himself from her or be so secretive, for example. If these two people care about one another, they'll listen to one another and do their best to work things out.

Patrick,

That there are men who are so inconsiderate as to willfully wake their partner in the middle of the night, doesn't make this example less inconciderate. If he cared about her sleep, he would have gone to another room. Since she stated he was masturbating to porn, we have to assume he either had the computer on or a light to be able to look in a magazine.
I really don't understand why you're speculating about how people may have reacted to him leaving. It might be a problem in a different situation, but it's pointless to make up situations that don't exist. Especially since, if he had snuck out, the risk of her waking up would have been smaller and the question thus wouldn't have existed in the first place. 

Elin,

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Since I don't know these two persons, I think it's possible that this boyfriend is just clueless rather than deliberately inconsiderate. In which case a frank discussion between the partners could go a long way towards resolving their difficulties. I'm assuming that MK and her boyfriend have some fondness for one another, and that, if told of her unhappiness, he'll try to make things better for her. If MK expresses her concerns and he still doesn't get it or doesn't care, that's another story.

My speculating was simply an acknowledgement of the uncontroversial fact that we all have opinions about everything, and what one person might find benign another might find objectionable.

Indeed it is pointless to make up situations that don't exist.  Unfortunately, MK has not given us enough information to know exactly what the situation is, so we have to speculate.  I don't know that she hasn't communicated to him, but she makes no mention of having done so.  You don't know if he was being inconsiderate or if Patrick was right.  I really wish that MK would post another comment giving us additional information that we have been all speculating about.

I too wish we had more information, and hope that MK posts a follow-up to let us know how things are going. I do realize that one would have to be rather dense not to realize that behaving as MK's boyfriend did would be disturbing to her sleep. But I've actually known people like that, who meant no harm but who were in their own worlds or were just basically clueless about what others were feeling. If he honestly didn't realize how his behavior was affecting her, and MK clues him in, he'll hopefully be more than willing to change his behavior to make her happy. Well, maybe we'll get some clarification from MK later.

Brittany Jo - Please do not tell this woman that her emotions are wrong.  That doesn't help.  She will only feel worse about herself and the situation.  Not only does she feel hurt and violated by her partner, now a stranger is calling her sexually immature.  This is not the way to educate people. 
Right now this woman is feeling a very intense stigma about porn and what it has done to her.  Even if she can find some vids that turn her on, that in and of iteself will make her feel worse about herself. Not everyone was brought up in an environment like you.
This situaiton involves four elements - the woman, the boyfriend, sexuality and the pornography.  All four need to be reconciled before progress can be made. The man involved may not be being doing physical or emotinal harm, but this situaiton is wounding the woman's soul.  No one should have to live feeing bad about herself.
Porn is not all bad, but not a lot of it is good.  Women get denegraded all the time.  There is very little positive portrail of women in porn.
Brittany Joe, please realize that your values and experiences are not always the same as everyone elses.  You may come from a place where you feel powerful, but lauding this over others doesn't help.